1966 S Type 3.4 originally owned by Mr Hewlett from HP

[ecollectables67]

Hello Gentlemen,

First of all, thank you for accepting me into the group. Ever since I was a child, I've had a love affair with British machinery ( ever since sitting inside the hood spare on my Dad's 68' 109; wished I still had that photo).

I have sort of an interesting long-term project that I am once again looking to revive. It is my semi-dormant UK-import 1966 S type Saloon sedan, purchased back in 2006. It has been a very slow, on and off slow restoration to say the least. While the car basically remains solid, rust free and original, weathering has taken a toll, and the years are showing on this ol gal.

Original Navy blue factory finish ( or what remains of it anyway), never repainted, and 99% California rust-free life. Only one little sopt of bubbling on the back of one wheewell, and that was from rainwater accumulating at one point. The interior is ( or was) sort of a grayish color leather. It was originally fairly decent with only a few seam splits. Now it has deteriorated to the point that it will need reupholstering.

The basic honest story:

Back in 2006, I was perusing through the local CraigsList free classifieds ad saw this old Jag for sale in the south Bay area for $2000. It said in needed work, but for the price, I couldn't get there fast enough.
After looking it over, I could se this was something special. WOW. A cool old Jag sedan, with original Wire wheels, 70km miles on it, and a wacky right-hand drive!
The seller, a guy about my age, told me that he had bought it to fix it up but could not get it running. He also stated that he had purchased it from local Charity donation lot for $1000, and that it used to belong to Mr William Hewlett himself of HP fame. I initially laughed it off and bought it anyway.

Fast forward to 2009. Come back from Iraq, decided to get it up and going. About $5000K later ( mostly at San Rafael British), it actually started and ran.
The guys there, while basically honest, seemed to work at a snails pace, and all the while with the meter on, so I was at a point where I could not spent more money for the moment.
All new brakes later, new parking brake pads, cable, all new hoses, all new fuel lines, recored radiatior, re-porcelanized exhaust manifold, overhaul of the carbs, a new fuel tank, a repaired second fuel tank, two rebuilt fuel pumps, new KONI shocks front and rear, a battery and I forgot what else, well, there it was.

Fast forward yet again to 2020. Here were ten years later, and three more deployments and the car had not seen any action. Which brings me to today, January 2021 and a planned second child. So sadly, my S type will likely have to go.

My question is how I can determine its real history ? The car was sold to Dewtards Enterprises in London in 1966. Presumably from there it was sold to the Hewletts. LIkely owned by them and donated to charity after his passing.
I have Certificate of Heritage and the title. But not much else. Any ideas ?

[cass3958]

First welcome to the forum. Second sorry it will not be a long relationship if you are trying to sell your S Type.

For us to check any details on your car we would need the details off the VIN plate. Chassis number, Engine number, Gearbox number and body number. These details will give us an insight in to what you actually have there and if the car has ever shown up on our registry in the past. If it has we might have some history and photos of the car from a previous owner.

Tracking the history/ownership of a car is very difficult. DATA protection denies a lot of personal information being passed on these days even if you were to find an organisation with what you wanted. You have the Heritage certificate which is a start but this only tells you what the the car was as it left the factory and who it was supplied to. Normally this is the Jaguar dealers details not the first owner.
I was very lucky with mine as it was a one owner car for 37 years from new so the history of the car passing on from the first owner via his estate after he died to me was easy to follow especially as the car came with a history file, receipts, service records and so on. Without a paper trail to follow it is very hard to go back. Speaking in more depth to the person you bought it off might help if you can contact them. Find out more information about where he bought it from and then contact them and so on. If you think the car was owned by the Hewlett family try contacting them for any information they might have. They might have photos of the car with a family member.
As I said there is no easy path to finding the history but once you have the provenance of the car it increases the value in my view and to have paperwork such as a History folder with service record and receipts is the icing on the cake.

Please supply us with the details of the car from the VIN plate (via PM to me if you do not want them on the open forum page with your Email address) and I will look in to seeing if we have a record of your car in our files.

[John Quilter]

I find it odd that Mr. Hewlett of HP would have purchased a RHD car in London since he was likely based in Palo Alto California, HP's headquarters. Was he posted to the UK at this time? Another neighbor of mine in Portola Valley, California, Ray Demere was a high ranking HP executive and circa 1962 was posted for a few years to Germany to set up an initial HP GmbH operation there. Interestingly, that family came back with two LHD Jaguars, a Mark 10 and a Mark 2. Another prominent person on the San Francisco Peninsula, Shirley Temple Black did own circa 1975 a 3.8S, black in color IIRC. Her car was serviced at Peninsula British Cars on the El Camino on Palo Alto from my knowledge working in the regional warranty department at the time.
Not sure if your Marin service facility you refer to as San Rafael British was the Jaguar Land Rover dealer on Casa Buena Drive in Corte Madera or not but getting any franchised dealer to work on a 50 + year old Jaguar would be a challenge not to mention costly at Bay Area dealer labor rates.

[ecollectables67]

Hello Gentlemen,

Thank you both for taking the time to answer. I have no problem sharing the information of the car. It is indeed a 1966 S Type 3.4, with the following info:

VIN # 1B8196BW
Engine number # 7B93918
Body number # 4B9420
Gearbox number # JBC27385P

UK registration: EHV 161D
California (US) registration: 6KCD987
FBe RN/07/224/W/D4

Build date: 29 SEP 1966
Dispatch date: 17 OCT 1966 to Henley's Distributors in London
Sold date: 15 DEC 1966 to Dewtards Enterprises in London

I am aware of Mrs Temple-Black's residency in the area. She actually also lived in Hillsborough for a time and was a generous benefactor to my high school ( I went to Burlingame in the early 80s).

Unfortunately, neither the previous seller nor the charity would be legally allowed to provide someone else's private information, specially the charity that first took it. Privacy is huge and they could get sued.

As far as me contacting the Hewlett family, I honestly feel that would not be very appropriate, as if it was indeed Mr. William Hewlett's car, I think it would be in bad taste to ask as it would come across as looking to financially benefit from their loss. Tasteless, in my humble opinion.

As to why it would be brought here as a right hand drive, who knows. I brought my 93' 110 from Zambia on a whim, because the price was simply too good to pass up. Ended up selling it to fund medical expenses for my first child.

So that is my sob story.

Forgot to mention that I had also replaced cap, rotor, points and condensor, as well as plugs and wires. Meant to go PERTRONIX but just never did. Those points are something else...

The British place was not the franchise. It was an independent in San Rafael proper, off highway 101. British something or other. They worked on Jaguars, Triumphs and MGs. And I felt fleeced every time I left.

Louis

All in all, I am totally torn. I know that if I sell it, I will not be able to get another for what I am into it. Plus, I still have a semi-restored 1962 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special, the Range Rover classic and the Stage-1 Land Rover to contend with. In all sincerity, unlikely endeavors to be completed any time soon, specially with an impending second pregnancy.

[cass3958]

Thanks for your VIN numbers
From this I found your car on a site called Saloondata.com http://saloondata.com/cars/detail/?car=1B8196BW which has 17 photos of the car and states.

Ebay item 2/20/11 cgi.ebay.ca/Jaguar-/110650942380 Opening bid $8,950, no reserve, no bids yet, 4 days left in auction.
Sellers description:
1966 Jaguar Saloon. This is an authentic, original S Type with the rarer 3.4L engine ( made only for the European market as an S type; most U.S cars have the 3.8L), All-disc brakes and full-floating XKE independent rear suspension and Jaguar wire wheels with excellent tires on them. It is automatic; it shifts well into all forward and reverse gears, with no slippage, chatter or lag. The Jaguar has 72K original miles. Extensive partial restoration work documented: completely rebuilt Jag independent rearend, new brake discs and pads, new KONI coil-over struts in rear and KONI shocks in front, new fuel pump, cooling rail, radiator, new battery, new E-brake cable and pads, new upper & lower radiator hoses, new ALL secondary cooling hoses, custom-built NEW fuel tanks, wheel bearings and much more. Over $6K in mechanical refurbishing alone. This Jaguar is solid, with excellent floors, chassis and trunk. Original Navy blue with grayish leather. Front driver's seat bottom poor. Original JAGUAR wire wheels with knock-offs, not aftermarket. Car is unrestored, with lots of potential. The opening price more than reflects that. I am the second owner and have owned the Jaguar since 2007; it had not been my intention to sell it, but we are in the midst of a home purchase, thus the Jag will probably not be attended to as I had planned. It has been registered and titled in my name since 2007. Additionally, I also have its "Birth certificate" provided by Jaguar Motorcars U.K by special request.That in itself is an unusual item to have, and a must for any serious restoration. It has a CLEAR California title, with NO accidents and NEVER Salvaged, with current registration (again, in MY name) thru 2010. Smog exempt of course. The original owner of the Jaguar from whom I purchased it ( a now-retired Hewlett-Packard manager) acquired the car brand-new in the UK from Dewars Enterprises (a local London-based Jaguar & British Leyland Distributor) in 1966 and had it shipped to the U.S. The Jag is an all-original, unrestored and unmolested S Type in the much-rare 3.4L, with its original Right hand drive.

Some of your story matches this advert ie the Hewlett connection but it states it was a Hewlett-Packard manager not the Hewlett family. What is confusing are the dates as this advert on EBay was posted 20 of February 2011 which according to you is during your ownership as you said you bought the car in 2006 which means if the advert was yours you would know it was not the Hewlett family but a manager who owned the car. This owner states he bought the car in 2007 which almost tallies up with you saying you bought the car in 2006.
What is the correct story here please as I do not know.
Confused from Torquay.

[ecollectables67]

That is my old Ebay ad. Yes, I did post HP manager after listing it previously, and have every Jaguar armchair expert say that I had to prove it. Had nothing to prove then, or now. Hence listed as such.
2006, 2007. I never thought it would really make any difference. Bought in late 2006. Registered it in my name in 2007. Nothing really spectacularly particular about that, frankly.
I still have old DMV receipts of fees posted trying to get it registered. Miscellaneous papers, but nothing of any major importance.

To clarify, I was not then nor am I now trying to " match any story". Considering the fact that it was 14 years ago, and I had other more important priorities at the time, dates not matching exactly was not a concern, nor is it now. I am not trying to sell Steve McQueens car here. I am merely trying to clarify the car's origin and purported story.

Does that clear your confusion ?

Regardless, the car is what it is. A solid, unrestored 3.4 S with low miles and nearly rust free. Not particularly abundant these days.

[cass3958]

Sorry Louis but thirty years as a Police Officer makes me question stories when they do not match up so I can get clarity.
Our register has no history of your car and I have searched the internet for any history of cars owned by the Hewlett family but found none.
As I stated before and you agreed with approaching the previous owners be that the Hewlett family, the charity organisation or the previous owner are the only way to find the true history of the car but they are not obliged to tell you anything and it is frustrating when they do not reply to your questions. In my case I knew who my previous owner was but sadly he had died but I found out the car had been bequeathed to his neighbour who had then stored the car for ten years in their garage not being used. My attempts to contact this couple took over a year but when I eventually made contact they had old photos and paper work for the car including the original service book and many MOT certificates.
I think going back to the previous owner is where you need to start to find the provenance and see where you go from there.

[ecollectables67]

Understand. I also know that every mook has a story.

As an Army officer with 26 yrs of service, I would question it as well. Which was why I dropped the purported ownership by Mr. Hewlett in that old listing.

It seems that it's at a crossroads; I am not willing to state matter-of-factly that it did belong to him. I will simply relay the info to any future potential buyer as a side note, and they can make their own determination.
As it is, still desirable car in the US on its own merits. I wished it didn't have to go.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Sincerely,
Lou
D/416 CA BN(A)